I think there is only offense taken where none is meant.

I do think that when we talk about RIM professionals, the dividing line
might be the more executive positions, then entry level positions into
the profession.

I believe that CEO's parted company some time ago from the perspective
of RM as a completely focused set of competencies within an
organization.  The common discussion is considering where to house the
function of RM within their present organizations.  IT, Legal, Audit,
Finance, etc., (ARMA paid very good money to produce the Forrester study
and report, it should be required reading for every member)

What I see happening is a focus on Leadership/Team Direction, Business
Management, Project Management, Human Resources Management, Information
Management and Technology, as well as promotion of the organization to
externalities and vested interest in the direction of the organization
through building a framework for RIM.  I don't see them looking at the
various functions of RIM as a composite profession.  (Hence the need to
promote the greater or global competencies of RIM to include more
technological and scientific oriented activities)

I don't subscribe that people right out of college will succeed in
attaining immediate high level positions, however I will see them
succeed in achieving those levels at a greater or faster pace then on
the job RIM professionals have experienced without the higher
educational background.

I have no doubt that many of the list members are not on the same page,
nor likely to see that through this conversation.

Serious work needs to be done in the advancement of the profession, if
one is comparing RIM with PE's, CPA's or any other profession that
requires the education and the experience, along with testing.  CRM's
have a graduated set of criteria, from no education and over 13+ years
of experience through 4 years of college and a few years of experience.
CPA certification requires an undergraduate degree, 2 years minimum work
with a qualified public accountancy firm, which attests to the
candidate's qualifications and significant testing.  PE's require an
undergraduate degree in engineering sciences, passing the EIT (engineer
in training) exam then 4 years experience and the references of 2-3 PE's
who confirm knowledge of the candidate's application of knowledge and
experience in the field, all to qualify to take the PE exam.

I agree that in the future, if RIM is not to be completely subsumed into
Information Management, Law, or Information Technology Sciences, then
one has to factor that employers have increasingly complex needs and the
people that fill positions in their organizations are going to need to
offer experience and advanced educational backgrounds in order to be
competitive.

ARMA is presently working on producing education initiatives, however
the time to have had this discussion was in reality a decade ago, when
it became apparent that the influence of technology was going to
significantly shift the way governments and organizations do business.
Just my opinion but it seems we are far more reactive than proactive and
this conversation is highlighting this point for me.

Somehow, I devise from the original thread that we are now defending the
ICRM exam process and I wish everyone would carefully consider the
message I am receiving, as a candidate that is taking the exams.

This is not meant to be either a criticism or a negative, but an
evaluation from my view of where the profession is poised today and what
the near term future of the profession may look like.  I spent 5 days in
Kansas last week and I hope that I could contribute something positive
to the context of the RIM profession.  I do hope to promote records and
information management as a profession, however in order to really see
improvements made, I believe academia and practitioners have to work
together.


Have a great evening all!

Paula Johnson
UCSD


-----Original Message-----
From: Records Management Program [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Bean, Bernadette (HEALTH)
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Certification, education and competencies

I agree with Sue on one point...that this is quite a fascinating
thread...however at that point we diverge

Sue said "...The next generation of RIMs will no doubt require an
extensive
and broad education in the area even to get a job."

I really don't think so Sue...at least not the kind of education you're
talking about.  It's bordering on offensive to assert that people who
"come
up through the ranks" will no longer be able to cut it in the future.

I have employed approximately 50 RIM people over the past 10-12
years...I've
employed file indexers, sentencers, people to write retention schedules,
consultants, people to prepare classification schemes, business
analysts,
software configuration experts, trainers etc etc etc.  This has taken
place
in several different organisations.

After doing all of this employing of people I have a very strong
preference
for employing people with practical experience over people who are
'suitably
educated'.  If I had a choice between someone with 5 years experience
and no
education or someone with a College/University qualification but no
experience I'd take the person with experience only EVERY TIME.  I've
employed people straight from RIM Uni courses who have no practical
experience (and sorry the few weeks they might spend doing glorified
work
experience as part of their course does not cut the mustard) and they
just
don't stack up.  All the theoretical knowledge in the world does not
prepare
them for the myriad of challenges that occur within the average
organisation...the lack of resources, the lack of interest, the
competing
priorities....I can honestly say I haven't had a single good experience
employing someone straight from a Uni course who has no practical
experience. The most troubling thing about these people is that it is
often
impossible to "un teach" them...they are fairly rigid in wanting to
adhere
to the theories they have learned.  It is FAR EASIER to teach someone
who
has some practical experience about the theories and research relating
to
our profession (because they are far more able to judge what they
read/hear
with a critical eye rather than absorbing it all like sponges).

So it seems to me (from what I've read in this thread) that the CRM is
on
the right track in that it takes people who have a dose of intelligence
(they managed to secure a bachelor's degree in something) and a healthy
amount of practical experience and working knowledge of the field and
provides some "rounding out" via examination.  I LIKE the fact that it
takes
people with degrees in anything from science to pre-law to
economics....I
think it makes the profession far more useful to have people with a
variety
of knowledge backgrounds.

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