Ok, I was totally incorrect to say lost cost is what offshore is about, pardon the offense, as that is patently untrue, what I should have said is that the low cost was a major factor in selecting vendors from India in the few small project ( under 150K) and that with small budgets, closer to home is easier to manage. I honestly shared my views simply in the event there are other readers evaluating proposals, they might benefit. Can I get crummy service in the US? Sure. Are there great service providers and products off the landmass of North America- obviously!
I would add this, the business models of IBM and Microsofts of the world are not really much help to joe average trying to buy services for a library or a little county eh? I would be likely to stick closer to home in selecting service vendors based soley on my experience for small projects unless new evidence drew my judgement in a different direction.
HP
-----Original Message-----
From: Records Management Program [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jaspal Dugal - Sterling Solutions
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [RM] RM Outsource to India and Elsewhere
Heather,
I can't comment on your past experiences as I have no details of the specifics of it, but I feel your view is an exception that proves the rule, or if not an exception - a minority view at the very least. That is, if one goes by published analysis & reports which shows that outsourcing, and off-shoring in particular, is growing considerably. (Try: http://tinyurl.com/o8bhj )
This is not unique to the USA, it also extends to UK & Europe, Japan and others. In fact the off-shoring growth in UK & Europe is expected to grow 50% year over year as opposed to 30% in the USA, in the current fiscal period. (Try: http://tinyurl.com/k3x7h )
Even in The US, work that is outsourced to American outsourcing companies (IBM, Accenture, EDS et al) eventually trickles down off-shore as all these majors either have their own development centers off-shore, or off load their work to other off-shore service providers. They have to - if they want to stay competitive. I can't think of a single US Fortune 500 company whose work does not end up off-shore especially in the Software and Applications Development sphere. When you buy something at WallMart, Best Buy, Staples or any other major retailer you can be sure that their supply chain and retail software that drives their operations has been developed in, and maintained by, an off-shore IT center and it's most probably in India.
IBM, for example, is the biggest foreign IT service providers here in India providing not only software development but also other BPO activities. A few days ago they announced an additional US$ 6 Billion investment in expanding their outsourcing operations in India ( http://tinyurl.com/qnght ), but this comes close on the heels of them cutting over 13,000 jobs worldwide including 4,700 in the US alone.( http://tinyurl.com/nwywn). IBM certainly has it's sights on the RM and content management sphere as their recent acquisition of Filenet proves - and somehow some of that work also is bound to go off-shore. Today, almost any US technology company you care to name GE, Microsoft, Oracle, HP, Dell, Texas Instruments, Honeywell, AT&T, Google, Ebay etc - all have their own software development located here in India. Check out http://tinyurl.com/qtvyo for example.
A few years ago, Indian IT Companies were never considered Tier 1 companies when bidding for IT contracts from American and European Corporates. Today many are. And it's estimated that there are a $ 100 Billion worth of IT contracts up for grabs in the next two years. A large portion of that is destined off-shore for sure. Indian IT Companies are acquiring other IT companies in the US and elsewhere on a regular basis in order to leverage their position. A few years from now the IT company you considered American and outsourced work to may just be Indian owned.
All this is just not "cheap labour". It has a lot to do with Quality, Productivity and a host of other factors. Besides, as amazing as it may sound, this "cheap labour" as you put it, may be cheap in dollar terms, but certainly not cheap when considered by local cost-of-living standards. Not by a long shot. Indian Companies have recently been hosting recruitment camps in the heart of silicon valley to acquire talent. If you visit the campuses of any Indian software major - you will see many foreigners working there - although may be not as many Indians you'll see working on the campuses of Microsoft in Redmond WA or Oracle in San Francisco - and I wonder why ??!!! See: http://tinyurl.com/rp6rq
The world is becoming smaller every day and these are just the joys, or sorrows, of globalization, A process started primarily by American Companies who depend largely on Global Markets for growth and profit. It's what makes the world go round. And if Indians can learn to live with McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Intel Processors and Levi's jeans, I guess the Americans and others will eventually learn to live with Indian IT service providers - don't you think ?? After all - in the 1960's if you told someone in America that very early in the 21st century Toyota and other Japanese, Korean and other companies would sell more vehicles globally than GM & Ford put together or that almost anything on any any american store shelf would have a "Made in China" label - they'ld probably consider you a certifiable lunatic.
As the USA gradually slips into recession, as some current indicators show, and pressures on the top line and bottom line of american corporates grows, this process will only accelerate- only because that's when "cost-cutting" kicks in big time.
On a lighter note, to put it in the colloquial : &%^$ happens !!!!!
Oh well ................ !!
Jaspal Dugal
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:25:06 -0400, Pike, Heather wrote:
> <,Local jobs in the records management industry are critical, if
> people
>
>> want to protect their local industry they had better come up with
>> something better than xenophobia to argue their position.>>
>
>
> The risks are real. Cheap labor is cheap for a reason, regardless
> of the landmass on which is sits, and cheap labor is what offshore
> is all about. There is no free ride! The fuzzy stuff has real value
> too. Accountablity in delivery, personal initiative in problem
> solving,communciations, extension of social contract, all backed
> up by cultural 'scapes and law - all more challenging when in
> doing business with "offshore" providers. It was "buyer beware" 10x
> over in my small experience-- it is an extremely resource hungry
> activity to hard code a substitute for, or define the cost of, the
> fuzzy stuff in preparing a delivery plan and specifications for
> services. It would be hard to see how I could be pursuaded to
> consider "offshore" again for services in IT or RM for my own
> customers.
>
>
> Heather P
>
>
> Records Management Program
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Records Management Program [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Hugh Smith Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [RM] RM Outsource to India and Elsewhere
>
>
> Snip from Post
>
>> I will not even bother listing the countless breaches of trust
>> and arguably law by some of the US's largest records management
>> companies.
>>
>> None of us can say that these breaches would have occurred had
>> the processing been done offshore, but I think it is also unfair
>> to assume
>>
>
>> this.
>>
>>
>> Gerard
>>
> When tapes and other vital information were lost by vendors in the
> U.S. , our nation of laws dictated that they make the clients and
> everyone at risk aware of that loss. Failure to do so would have
> exposed the entity who lost the information to all the costs
> associated with Identity Theft, monitoring accounts, credit
> watches, and legal fees. By dealing with corporations within your
> own country, you have the benefit of your laws protecting you.
>
> If I go into XYZ corporation and steal valuable business
> information, engineering secrets, client lists, etc. under our laws
> I can be prosecuted. In many countries the stealing of competitive
> information is not viewed as sabotage but smart business practice.
> If they develop an advantage they press it no matter what your
> contract says.
>
> Through the years I have dealt with companies overseas that when it
> suits their purpose withdraw to their own borders and challenge you
> to come after them in their courts. The American legal system with
> all its flaws is based on justice. One of the leading holders of
> patents in Washington, D.C. is Japan and our courts protect them
> the same way they protect GM.
>
> But every contract overseas should first examine the laws that will
> protect you when a breach occurs. Doing business from Canton, Ohio
> to India or Brazil does have the same protections as Canton, Ohio
> to Atlanta, Georgia. The protections that exist for corporations
> here just does not exist in certain countries.
>
> Hugh Smith
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