<snip>
On 2/9/07, Jesse Wilkins <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> And compare
> with the Project Management Professional, which has been around since
1984.
> PMI counts more than 220,000 PMPs around the world. I'd certainly think
one
> could make the case that any organization large enough to warrant a PMP
> should be large enough to warrant a CRM.

PeterK: sorry Jesse but your comparing apples and oranges. PMPs and CRMs do
two different things. while the PMP designation may have come about in
1984 I did not become aware of it until the late 1990s.

so what does that prove? not a dern thing except to point out that
until that time I was working areas that did not require project
management. As projects became more and more complex organizations,
both private and public decided that they needed to hire dedicated
project managers. Now lots of folks may apply for a project manager's
position, but how could the hiring organization distinguish one
applicant from another. Well why not specify the PMP designation.</snip>

Organizations need project managers and records managers, hence the creation
of the PMP and CRM respectively. Organizations *may* have need for more
project managers than records managers, although I'd not be confident of
that position, but my point was that the CRM has been around for 11 years
longer than the PMP and yet the PMP has 244 TIMES more certified candidates
with at least as rigorous an exam process as the CRM (experiential
requirement: 4500 hours of project management). And as I did last week, I
could cut & replace "project" with "records" in every instance of this
statement and it would be as true. 

<snip>
Same thing is happening in the Records Management field. I will hazard
the guess that the demand for CRMs increased dramatically shortly
after the passage of Sarbanes-Oxley. (that would make a nice little
study)</snip>

I agree - and it's a study that should already have been done by ARMA and/or
the ICRM - and one that should be absolutely trivial to do: simply compare
the growth rate of a) candidates and b) CRMs awarded since SOX. If the
growth rate is increasing, that's a data point. If it isn't - and I mean the
growth rate, not the absolute number of candidates/CRMs - that's another,
arguably more significant data point based on your guess. 

<snip>
if you are a successful and become a CRM be aware that you now have a
target on your back. Seriously folks will point out your errors when
you make one, they will ask how did that person become a CRM. But
recognize too that these are the same folks who will not ever apply
for the exams. 
</snip>

This is a non sequitur. Every industry and certification has faced the exact
same thing, whether it be CDIA+s and PMPs, the "paper MCSE", or even MBAs,
doctors, and lawyers. In looking through the list archives earlier today, I
saw shades of that, but I can think of folks who are CDIA+s that I ask that
of today and I think my record as a CDIA+, CDIA+ instructor, and imaging
consultant is defensible. 

Not to single Peter out by any means, but I'm starting to see this
discussion going in the same direction the discussion did last week with RM
vs. IT - there are charges that the CRM is somehow different from other
professional certifications, just as RM is somehow different from IT and IT
doesn't "get it" while IT does. One of the fundamental things about project
management - as about records management - is that there are certain
fundamentals that have been consistent over, in the case of PM, hundreds of
thousands of projects representing millions of man-hours of project work.
These principles are encapsulated in the PM Body of Knowledge - as they are,
sort of, in the ICRM Exam Outline, and will be better when the CRM is mapped
to the ARMA Competencies work. But the other fundamental in project
management, as in records management, is that every organization thinks that
they are somehow unique and that those principles don't apply - that is,
they don't need to adequately staff and manage risk proactively and define
requirements and all the things that are the fundamentals. 

That's what's coming across in these discussions - that RIM as a profession,
RIM professionals, and the CRM exam are different and unique from other
professions, professionals, and certifications. I'll hope that this is not
heretical here on the RECMGMT listserv, but it ain't, we ain't and it ain't.

I stand by my position that 901 CRMs after 31 years of the program is not
sufficient for it to be even heard of in most organizations, much less
considered worth a premium salary based solely on the cert. In contrast, PMP
offers the highest salary premium of any certification, IT or otherwise,
year in and year out according to the Foote salary servey, Certification
Magazine's salary survey, Computerworld's salary survey, and many others.
There is a positive correlation I believe between the perception of the
certification within the discipline AND OUTSIDE of it, the numbers of
candidates, and the salary premium. 

So why doesn't the CRM have even 1% of the PMP's numbers despite SOX and
HIPAA, despite all the other regulations in the US and Canada, and despite
being around 11 years longer than the PMP? I refuse to believe that all of
YOU believe that there is that much more need, as opposed to demand, for
demonstrably competent project managers than for demonstrably competent
records managers, which is what the PMP and CRM are respectively. So is it
the exam? Is it the program? Is it lack of awareness of the program, or of
the profession at large? I don't know and I don't have the insights that
many of you have from having been on the ARMA BOD and/or the ICRM Board of
Regents and from having gone through the CRM process. 

It's late and I'm tired and about to move on to midnight feeding #1. So I'm
going to drop this thread. But I hope everyone on the list who has slogged
through to this point will take it in the spirit in which I offer it, as a
call to those of you who are CRMs to understand why the numbers are what
they are, and as a call to those who aren't to really take a look at the CRM
and what it has to offer. I think the former is perhaps more important than
the latter in the long run and I hope the CRMs and the Regents will give
some thought to the points I and others have raised through this discussion.


Respectfully, 

Jesse Wilkins
CDIA+, LIT, ICP, edp, ermm, ecms
IMERGE Consulting
[log in to unmask]
Yahoo! IM: jessewilkins8511
(303) 574-1455 office
(303) 484-4142 fax
Looking for the latest education on electronic records, email, and imaging?
Visit http://www.imergeconsult.com/schedule2.html for a current schedule of
courses. 

List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html
Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance