Well, yes - you expected otherwise? What caused you to think that, if
you felt that you could respond to me with such language? Your private
reputation is different than your public one? It's not as if you're not
known for responding this way - I'm just getting it out there that you're a
bully, and shut down discussions in this manner.
-D
On Fri 30/11/12 9:39 AM , Larry Medina [log in to unmask] sent:
Seriously? You posted that private message to the Listserv? You TRULY
ARE an ass...
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:35 AM, David T. Macknet wrote:
Ahh, well, so I mistook "Steve" for "Larry". Oh, the eloquent
response.
-D
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Medina [log in to unmask] [2]
To: "David T. Macknet" [log in to unmask] [3]
Sent: Fri 30/11/12 9:07 AM
Subject: Fwd: Re: [RM] Fwd: Part 2 - Hitler reacts to G**P
David-
First, my name isn't Steve... it never has been, but I doubt that
matters
much to you.
Sarcasm is a lost art, apparently you aren't familiar with it. It
requires intellect, wit and a command of the English language beyond using
terms to insult others in a direct manner.
My suggestion is you take your "garp" and go fuck yourself.
Have a nice weekend.
Larry
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 8:55 AM, David T. Macknet wrote:
Steve,
In deference to your age (you've been doing this since about the time
I
was born), I'll try not to be too harsh (although I must point out that
age
does not equal wisdom).
* A "straw-man" argument is one which is put forth solely to
be knocked
down. I wasn't making a straw-man argument, and I don't think that
GARP
was a straw-man either.
* "Standards" are merely things against which other things
are
compared.
You can say "properly" ... but I dispute that there is any proper manner
for their establishment: we live with the Foot, the Pound, etc.
Standards
are established by common consent, in many cases, rather than through
some
bureaucratic process.
* If a "standard" isn't specific enough, well, then you
deviate from it
for some specific reasons. A standard doesn't need some particular
pedigree, nor some particular process - it merely needs to exist, in
usage. I understand that this may offend your desire for order in the
universe, but, well, I can't help your OCD - it's your own issue.
* There is a strong desire for an established "standard"
within the RM
community - and you seem perfectly happy to derail that standard in
order
to have it be "properly developed." Do you have specific issues with
GARP, as it stood? Or are you objecting to it simply because it didn't
go
through some bureaucratic process?
* Is your issue with the wording simply that it's not using
the language
you would prefer? If that's the case, why would you wish to scrap the
whole thing, rather than simply have the thing reworded? Are you so
hung-up on the language that you'd throw it all out?
Please, take your time in responding - I understand that, since you've
been
doing this forever, you might need some typing time.
-D
On Thu 29/11/12 3:26 PM , Larry Medina [log in to unmask] [4] [2]
sent:
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:56 PM, David T. Macknet wrote:
> Are you just not thinking it through, Larry?
>
> Having an industry accepted standard means you don't have to defend
every
> aspect of policy - you can point to the standard and say,
>
Okay I was gonna say, don't get me started...Don't EVEN get me
started...
and now you have.
Am I thinking it through?? No, I'm hip-shooting... after 40 years in
this
field, when it comes to policy, practice, process and procedure,
that's
what I always do.
And after 10yrs on the ARMA Standards Committee, including 4 as it's
Chair
and more year than that involved with ISO, AIIM and NFPA Standards...
I'm
a
bit peeved at someone using the term "Standard" so lightly.
Want to know what it takes to PROPERLY DEVELOP Standards for their use
and
wide acceptance? Do a bit of reading here:
http://goo.gl/RMu93 [5] [3] [2]">http://goo.gl/RMu93 [6] [4]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[7]
[5]
[3]">http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[8]
[6]
And here:
http://goo.gl/dft7x [9] [7] [4]">http://goo.gl/dft7x [10] [8]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[11]
[9]
[5]">http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%20Activities/American%20National%20Standards/Procedures,%20Guides,%20and%20Forms/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements%20and%20Related/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements.pdf
[12]
[10]
And if you've got some extra bucks laying around, here:
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976 [13] [11]
[6]">http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=39976 [14] [12]
It won't take long to realize what "garp" represents are GUIDELINES,
NOT
a
Standard. They weren't developed using the same principles or process,
they are not speicific enough to serve the requirements of all
industry
segments or types of records, such as: classified, confidential,
sensitive,
intellectual property, etc. They don't cover all aspects using
"should"
or
"shall" language, and they haven't been reviewed and developed using
Openness, Balance, Due Process and Consensus.
So if you think you can say "everybody does it this way, and they do
it
this way because of all of these articles and arguments, piss off
until
you've read them and then come back and ask me again!", you can think
again. They represent a Strawman, not a Standard.
Larry
[log in to unmask] [15] [13] [7]
--
*Lawrence J. Medina
Danville, CA
RIM Professional since 1972*
List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html [16]
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Links:
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[2] http://goo.gl/RMu93 [21] [19]
[3]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[22]
[20]
[4] http://goo.gl/dft7x [23] [21]
[5]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[24]
[22]
[6] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976 [25] [23]
[7] mailto:[log in to unmask] [26] [24]
[8] http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html [27] [25]
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--
Lawrence J. Medina
Danville, CA
RIM Professional since 1972
Links:
------
[1] mailto:[log in to unmask] [33]
[2] mailto:[log in to unmask] [34]
[3] http://goo.gl/RMu93 [35]
[4] http://goo.gl/RMu93 [36]
[5]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[37]
[6]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[38]
[7] http://goo.gl/dft7x [39]
[8] http://goo.gl/dft7x [40]
[9]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[41]
[10]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%20Activities/American%20National%20Standards/Procedures,%20Guides,%20and%20Forms/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements%20and%20Related/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements.pdf
[42]
[11] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976 [43]
[12] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=39976 [44]
[13] mailto:[log in to unmask] [45]
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[19] http://goo.gl/RMu93 [51]
[20]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[52]
[21] http://goo.gl/dft7x [53]
[22]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[54]
[23] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976 [55]
[24] mailto:[log in to unmask] [56]
[25] http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html [57]
[26] mailto:[log in to unmask] [58]
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--
Lawrence J. Medina
Danville, CA
RIM Professional since 1972
Links:
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[1] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[2] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[3] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[4] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[5] http://goo.gl/RMu93
[6] http://goo.gl/RMu93
[7]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[8]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[9] http://goo.gl/dft7x
[10] http://goo.gl/dft7x
[11]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[12]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%20Activities/American%20National%20Standards/Procedures,%20Guides,%20and%20Forms/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements%20and%20Related/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements.pdf
[13] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976
[14] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=39976
[15] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[16] http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html
[17] http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html
[18] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[19] mailto:[log in to unmask]
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[21] http://goo.gl/RMu93
[22]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[23] http://goo.gl/dft7x
[24]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
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[37]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[38]
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/standards/guide-to-standards/BSI-Guide-to-standards-1-4-standards-creation-BSI-UK-EN.pdf
[39] http://goo.gl/dft7x
[40] http://goo.gl/dft7x
[41]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[42]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%20Activities/American%20National%20Standards/Procedures,%20Guides,%20and%20Forms/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements%20and%20Related/2010%20ANSI%20Essential%20Requirements.pdf
[43] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976
[44] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=39976
[45] mailto:[log in to unmask]
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[52]
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[53] http://goo.gl/dft7x
[54]
http://publicaa.ansi.org/sites/apdl/Documents/Standards%2520Activities/American%2520National%2520Standards/Procedures%2C%2520Guides%2C%2520and%2520Forms/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements%2520and%2520Related/2010%2520ANSI%2520Essential%2520Requirements.pdf
[55] http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail%3Fcsnumber%3D39976
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