This is essentially what an ISO auditor told me yesterday when I
mentioned ISO 15489.  Thanks for putting it in writing so I have more
than the concept in my head.
Mary Haider, CRM

>>> [log in to unmask] 04/21/05 8:19 AM >>>
Chris Campbell writes: "If you are a ISO 9000 certified organisation
you may be able to persuade your certifying body to accept that ISO
15489 will be part of the documentation you follow. They should then be
able to make some comments on the fullness of the implementation."

As a former ISO 9001 Lead Auditor, I would suggest that great care
should be taken in linking ISO 15489 to ISO 9001 (or ISO 14001). Let me
explain.

ISO 9001 is a mandatory standard that requires an audit by a qualified
third party organization in order to achieve and sustain certification.
ISO 15489 is a best practice standard and requires no third party
audit.

ISO 9001 is benchmarks an organization's quality management systems
(QMS). It does NOT benchmark the whole organization. Typically, an ISO
9001 QMS excludes human resources (with certain very specific exceptions
such as training), finance, legal services and marketing. The scope of
the QMS has to be clearly defined in the organization's QMS documents.

This leads to the next substantial difference between ISO 9001 and ISO
15489. ISO 15489 is a standard that applies to the records management
system as a whole and therefore applies to the whole organization. ISO
9001 applies only to the QMS and therefore only to those records and
documents that support or provide evidence of compliance with the ISO
9001 standard.

It is essential to clearly demarcate the border between the
organization's QMS and the rest of the organization because the third
party auditor can only look at the QMS and that part of the records
management system that directly supports it. It cannot look at those
parts of the organization that are outside the QMS UNLESS there is a
reference in the QMS documents (e.g., a reference to IS) 15489) that
effectively opens the door to the auditor to go outside the QMS. The
third party auditor can pursue any reference in the QMS documentation,
even those that do not relate to the QMS.

Those of us who were responsible for the QMS (document control was my
special area) were very careful about NOT volunteering non-QMS
information to the third party auditor for the very simple reason that
it increased the risk that the auditor would find a non-conformance,
something like a sin.

So, could you refer to ISO 15489 in your ISO 9001 documents? Yes, and
more power to you if you can away with it. But you are also opening a
huge door that your organization may not be too happy about.

Gerry van Houten
Information Policy Adviser
Archives of Ontario
77 Grenville Street
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
M5S 1B3
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