I agree with Sue on one point...that this is quite a fascinating thread...however at that point we diverge Sue said "...The next generation of RIMs will no doubt require an extensive and broad education in the area even to get a job." I really don't think so Sue...at least not the kind of education you're talking about. It's bordering on offensive to assert that people who "come up through the ranks" will no longer be able to cut it in the future. I have employed approximately 50 RIM people over the past 10-12 years...I've employed file indexers, sentencers, people to write retention schedules, consultants, people to prepare classification schemes, business analysts, software configuration experts, trainers etc etc etc. This has taken place in several different organisations. After doing all of this employing of people I have a very strong preference for employing people with practical experience over people who are 'suitably educated'. If I had a choice between someone with 5 years experience and no education or someone with a College/University qualification but no experience I'd take the person with experience only EVERY TIME. I've employed people straight from RIM Uni courses who have no practical experience (and sorry the few weeks they might spend doing glorified work experience as part of their course does not cut the mustard) and they just don't stack up. All the theoretical knowledge in the world does not prepare them for the myriad of challenges that occur within the average organisation...the lack of resources, the lack of interest, the competing priorities....I can honestly say I haven't had a single good experience employing someone straight from a Uni course who has no practical experience. The most troubling thing about these people is that it is often impossible to "un teach" them...they are fairly rigid in wanting to adhere to the theories they have learned. It is FAR EASIER to teach someone who has some practical experience about the theories and research relating to our profession (because they are far more able to judge what they read/hear with a critical eye rather than absorbing it all like sponges). So it seems to me (from what I've read in this thread) that the CRM is on the right track in that it takes people who have a dose of intelligence (they managed to secure a bachelor's degree in something) and a healthy amount of practical experience and working knowledge of the field and provides some "rounding out" via examination. I LIKE the fact that it takes people with degrees in anything from science to pre-law to economics....I think it makes the profession far more useful to have people with a variety of knowledge backgrounds. Some evidence to support my theory... ...About 20 years ago here in Aus they changed the way you have to study for Law by making you study something else first...economics is the most popular but there are people who choose to study science, history, politics etc in conjunction with their law studies and it has been very successful. ...You cannot study social work here before you are 21...so you either work for a couple of years after leaving high school or you study something different until you reach 21...In many cases people do volunteer or para-professional work in the field until they can study...so they obtain practical, working knowledge BEFORE they start learning the theory...again it has been very successful ...You cannot do an MBA (here anyway) without having "x" number of years practical experience IMHO I think that if the traditional academic institutions don't clue up to these facts (not just for our own profession) they will become increasingly irrelevant (Sorry Sue). There are many other ways to obtain qualifications or certifications these days that would be equally useful in an individual gaining promotional opportunities (which is primarily what we're after right?) AND employers gaining good, knowledgeable workers. To re-state my own biases...I have a Bachelors degree in International Politics (obtained 17 years ago), 17 years almost-uninterrupted experience in the RIM field, a Masters degree in Information Management Systems (obtained 8 years ago). Cheers, Bernadette Bernadette Bean bus ph: 8226 6154 mob:0412 848750 email: [log in to unmask] When life hands you lemons, ask for Tequila and Salt This e-mail is personal. It is not authorised by, nor sent on behalf of, the Department of Health or the Government of South Australia. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any attachment for viruses and defects as the Department of Health does not accept any liability for loss or damage arising from receipt or use of this e-mail or any attachments. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance