Good subject line, and I thought I'd wait a bit before jumping in again. I agree with many of Bruce's points in response to Sue Myburg's remarks. As a "bottom line", I would assert that both education AND certification should play a role "growing" or developing professionals. I don't believe that we need to restrict the field of play, and believe that there's plenty of room for many well-educated, certified professionals. We all have a challenge in the education area, from what I've read. My hope, repeat HOPE, is that the competencies project will lead us to improvements in both areas. Interestingly, in researching the area of education, ARMA staff found 700 education courses within the U.S. alone. My own observations here may or may not be accurate...and I'll be happy to be corrected by others. However, the education area is among the most "thorny". Establishing degree programs and/or areas of concentration requires an ability to stimulate demand. Stimulating demand, among students and among private and public sector organizations is long, arduous work, and will not likely meet with short-term success. I'm proud to be involved with ARMA at a time when we're tackling such challenging issues....and while many of us could focus on what hasn't been accomplished thus far, I think we'd all be better off in focusing on what needs to be done now, and how we can sustain those efforts, and how we can all gain the greatest advantage from the efforts to further our profession. When Bruce calls on ARMA to "step up to the plate", let's realize that for those of us who are ARMA members, that it's up to all of us to make a contribution to the effort. Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance